Prostitute. Addict. Homeless. Criminal. Today’s guest Christine C. MacDonald teaches about what she shares in her book, The Same Kind of Human. Christine uses stories of her own lived experiences, scripture, and practical resources to equip and teach people of faith how to serve others with the love of Jesus. Despite her blindness, Christine see’s “who” the person is and loves them “where” they are as Jesus did. She helps us to see the humanity of those we often judge or shun with arms of love and a message of hope. ****
Kimberly Hobbs Welcome to Empowering Lives with Purpose and I’m your host, Kimberly Hobbs. I am the founder of Women World Leaders. We are so glad that you joined in with us today and I would love to welcome our guest Christine McDonald. welcome Christine. Where are you from?
Christine McDonald Hi, Kimberly. It’s thanks for having me. Um, I am from Oklahoma, but I consider Missouri home.
Kimberly Hobbs Missouri is your home. Okay, but you’re from Oklahoma. Yes, great to have you and, and ladies, ha this woman is a bundle of joy. I if as you can see, by her beautiful smile, she is just precious. And we are so thrilled that God allowed us to connect for this purpose today to do this podcast. So it is our desire ladies at empowering lives with purpose to encourage you and empower you to a closer walk with our Savior. And we believe that each of you are a masterpiece. God says in Ephesians 210 that we are God’s masterpiece created a new and Christ Jesus to do the very good things that he planned for us long ago. And we believe he has a plan for you. As you’re listening today. Just listen and see what God may be speaking to your heart as we get to talk to Christine today and hear a little bit about her story and her life and what she’s doing for Jesus. So I want to share a little bit about who Christine MacDonald is. Christine is a beautiful woman of God. She’s sold out to serve him wholeheartedly. She was a prostitute addict, homeless and a criminal. And Christine clarity McDonald is a survivor of human trafficking. She is the author of the memoir cry purple, and the book which is now out and you can you can find this book. It’s called the same kind of human which we are going to talk about today, which addresses the biases and assumptions that we commonly hold about exploited and marginalized populations. She is She shares her stories of her own life’s experiences her scripture and thought provoking commentary and practical resources. And she equips and teaches people of faith, to encourage and serve others and connect them to Jesus with them, seeing who they are, and loving them where they are with the eyes of grace. She helps us see the humanity of those we often judge or Shawn, and Christina empowers us to instead reach out to those people with arms of love and a message of hope. And as you get to hear Christine’s heart, you’re going to see like how beautiful she truly is to care so much about the individual. So there’s a scripture that I always ask God, God gives me something when I do these podcasts that’s going to speak to the people. And we said that the title of this podcast is going to be the same kind of human and what does that mean? And Christine is going to expound on that. But the scripture God gave me to talk about was God makes everything beautiful for its own time. And he has planted eternity in the human heart. But even so, people cannot see the whole scope of God’s work from beginning to end. That’s Ecclesiastes 311. And again, this scripture I felt just so goes with what Christina is going to teach on. But Christine, can you share a little bit about your story which led you today for what you’re doing for God’s Kingdom glory?
Christine McDonald Sure, it’s it’s actually God’s story not mine.
Kimberly Hobbs Amen. Amen, sister. Right, right.
Christine McDonald I love the Scripture, that’s beautiful. Um, so um, I. So we all have a story, right? And that is so amazing and taking our story and using it for His glory. And in you know, I kind of came from a messy past I grew up in the foster care system. I didn’t have a father and mother didn’t know who that was, you know, I kind of had that hole in my soul, if you will, longing for that. That father figure and that family unit, my mother struggled with mental illness and alcoholism. I was in and out of the foster care system. We moved around a lot. So it wasn’t a lot of time for connection relationship. And then at 15, I ended up as a runaway, just 21 different tools 15 different foster care, you know, homes. Yeah. And so I, as a runaway, I have an abandoned house in the middle of winter just thinking as any 18 year old, those of you moms of teenagers know, everybody. Myself included as a kid, I thought I knew everything. And I’ve been through sexual abuse, you know, I’ve witnessed domestic violence into a lot of things, but you know, in my 15 years of life, right, and I had been in this abandoned house and a guy befriended me, offered me a place to stay and actually offered me a job, right? I thought my my individual survival skills are better than anything these grown ups got for me. And because you know, 15 and no everything and in that guy gave me a place to stay. He offered me a job, I gave him a fake name. I said I was AC car. I said, I was spacey because every school I went to everywhere Stacy was like that popular pretty girl. Everything I wasn’t car because I was picked up in a car and I was fifth Catering and I couldn’t think of anything better. Wow. And I said I was 19 I was growing up, right? And I was like, and and so kind of looking for work. And he said, Well, you’re in luck. I got you. I’m like what he’s like yeah, he’s like, I own this business. I have the help wanted in the newspaper. You know? Yeah, I’ll give you a job. I’ve been paying you cash for a couple of days for you make a covenant. And if you hate it that’s a lost you have a few bucks in your pocket and I’ll drop you back off for a pink jet. I’m like, okay, sure…
Kimberly Hobbs oh, boy,
Christine McDonald I was selling flowers and hockey tongs and and in the neighborhood and trinkets and things in, in adult entertainment, like strip clubs. Go Go Back then it was go go. You know, go go dancing was the thing because homos girl I’m old. Wow. And what he did is what we would call the grooming process. He befriended me. He gave me a place to stay. I had to catch my packet. I would go in and do this. And he didn’t ask me any questions. And no, this was so much safer than anything I had experienced. He wasn’t put his hands on me. You know, there was no violence. There was no sexual abuse. He wasn’t trying to be sexual. There was none of that right. But what he ended up doing was selling me to a guy that yeah, for $2,500 he sold me to the man that owned those adult entertainment centers $2,500 I was sold. And then I was sold in the back rooms. That night, the exchange of the $2,500 medi had to test the goods the guy that he sold me to to test the goods the goods of course for me. Um, so we would call that breaking me in so the first guy would have been what we would call a groomer. The second person did what we call breaking them breaking new egg, right? The segregation, the humiliation, the violence, the fear, all of that. And I spent then they would, they were selling me in and out of the backroom, to these gentlemen clubs in Oklahoma City, Coffeyville, Kansas, and Tulsa, Oklahoma. And I was introduced into drugs. And in that drugs actually became like that coping mechanism, right, it became the thing I would do because I knew what they were fixing to do. And then it became the thing I would do after because I didn’t have to think about what it just happened. All that minutia, I became a full blown addict. And eventually at 17, I was escorted off property at gunpoint. I mean, I had nobody to call I was wasn’t even allowed to go the bathroom. I mean, what do you do? And I was escorted off property at gunpoint, didn’t even know what city I was in. And I said, if we ever see you again, we’ll kill you. Again. When I was escorted off the property. I’m walking down the street guy pulls up and says, hey, you need a lift. I said, I don’t know where I’m going. And he’s like, Well, I’m heading to Iowa. Like, I don’t know about Iowa. He’s like, Well, I’ll stop in Kansas City to gas up and grab dinner. It’s the halfway point. I said, Kansas City that’s like Chicago. Can I go? And I did. I wrote all the way to Kansas City. I was about a five hour drive. I got off in Kansas City in downtown in the middle. He dropped me off in the heart of downtown where the games prostitution and the pimps and drug there’s all of this mess is going on around me like oh my gosh, and I had basically been held captive for two and a half years and may made a decision on my own in two and a half years. Wow. Really traumatic and overwhelming. I didn’t know what to do. I tried to get into the shelter. I didn’t have an ID, right. I didn’t know how to do these processes again. I mean, this was such a culture shock for me. They told me I had to come back at a certain time. And while I’m standing, these people are all around me. And all these things have guys like, hey, blondie. You don’t look like you belong here. He’s like, can I give you a list somewhere? And I’m like, I don’t know where I’m going. And he’s like, Girl, you’re not safe down here. Let me let me help you out. Right? Why not know was he was a pimp. And that he would I would spend the next 17 years being bought and sold. Yeah. And then I finally, you know, got Brandon that there was a lot of arrest, a lot of violence, just a whole lot of things. Yeah. So that that was kind of my pathway. Until the last day I was on the streets when I almost took a life at gunpoint, and I said, I can’t do this, I can’t be a monster. And I know I have the capacity and me. I don’t care if he finds me and kills me. I will not be responsible for taking her life. And that that started my pathway out. So that that was my freedom gate is what I call it. So wow, wow.
Kimberly Hobbs Oh, my goodness, like it’s a little bit even much to take in listening to all that in a short amount of time. It’s it’s could be overwhelming and you lived it. Christine, you lived that life. And and I know the audience because we didn’t even mention it yet. But Christine is blind. Christine, can you talk about that portion of your life as well?
Christine McDonald Yeah, that’s actually where I found my faith. Right. So now I’m tell us about that, please. Yes. So my faith, and this is where God pierced my heart for my calling is like, it’s funny. Everybody tells me I’ll tell us a story about us. And I’m not there was a pivotal moment in my life that God utilizes to catapult my faith and to teach me how the body of Christ operates. Right. And so I’ve been out for a couple years, and I met a guy. And we were I had not really had had a really tainted understanding of Jesus. And God, I had pastors that had paid for me, right, I had gone to churches that said, you can’t eat unless, unless you, you know, accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, and you’re gonna burn in hell. And I just heard all these awful things. It was so Genji, if so, and I am the quarter that my pimp had me work, there were three churches, and he would make all these things right. And not once if any of these people have faith, right? They’re supposed to be the good guys you think, come to my rescue or intervene, you know, you know, and so like, like, I have to say that the whole Jesus people that didn’t feel so great set so well with me because of a lot of experiences I talked about. And same kind of human. And then I got pregnant, there were some complications in that pregnancy. And I was forced to choose between the life of my unborn child and my own eyesight, I went blind, in three days, wow, there was medication that would have saved my eyesight, and the inflammation in my brain that was causing the blindness, but it would have taken the life of my unborn child and, and I chose my baby. And when my baby was old, I had to have both of my eyes medically removed to so that’s really where my faith really, really like that transformational piece, right? We can go to church and we can like, get into some Bible study and memorize some scripture, but that’s not the same as having that moment where you are truly transformed by the Spirit. And this is where that part of my journey started. I had been going to church I’d been going to Bible study and I was Piven and go into church I was listening and learning right. And yet I had yet had that spiritual awakening that transformation until that blindness happened.
Kimberly Hobbs Wow, wow. Christine. And so your faith was solidified through that time because your walk began your trust and your your reliance on Jesus truly took form right and not not visible with what your eyes could see but the trust of what you could not see. And that’s incredible. And so then, I am just amazed again, I I’ve been able to talk to Christine on on the side a lot which is beautiful. But Christine, you you develop this passion of serving God and your heart became pierced for people. And you wanted to understand people and love them in their humaneness and love them to Jesus. Right. So why why was that such a passion for you? Because you were on the other side of it. Right? Right knew what it was like and people were not.
Okay, so tell us about that. Tell us about that.
Unknown Speaker I remember my first started going to church to people would be like, Oh, she’s like, dress like a prostitute. You can’t do that. But I hadn’t accepted Christ yet. Right? I had not yet. I was coming to church, and I was speaking, I was showing up but people were just like, really? judgy. And I dealt with a lot of that. Well, I was a prosecutor. I’ve been a prostitute for 21 years. So better God, I couldn’t pierce my heart to do differently if he wasn’t in my heart yet. So I was seeking and so they were pushing me away, right? And I was trying to find my place but yet I still have that yearning and that drawing and I felt odd and I was trying to learn I had been through the things well, you can’t have a sandwich unless you accept Jesus in your heart and I think well, so you want me to lie to you and tell you I believe something I don’t even understand. So I can have a sandwich Well, that’s like asking me to commit perjury right. To in order to get food I want to get this he met the human needs in the moment right he’ll blabber he met these people in those moments with in their mess, right. And those humanities were met a little off the bat God, Jesus. Um, but in that there was that spiritual transformation. And so how do we how do I use my experiences where I’ve gone to church, and they’re talking about purity in the women’s Bible study and purity events and things like that, and I’m like, Hold on, I was trafficked. I mean, I was sexually abused that at at eight, you know, um, how do how does somebody like me find period? Right? And because I did not yet have that biblical foundational understanding. And so thank you. Well, but the conversations were things that people like me would feel are unobtainable. I’m never going to Mass Spec patients, right. And so what do you do you go find another church, because you’re still sick. And right. So I thought, Well, gosh, after I wrote my book, cried purple, which is for people that have experienced substance use disorders, people that have been in prison, people that have done these things, so they can have hope. God really pierced my heart. Well, you know, the Bible really tells us why Jesus example you know, he was hanging out with the leper who was hanging out with the prostitutes. He was finding equity for the homeless, right making sure hey, man, how do we use I don’t know what the Bible tells us. It Real Life practical application.
Kimberly Hobbs And so can I can I say right here I was so moved Christine. When you told me how you put that into action? Yeah, reaching people where they were when you sat on that curb next to a prostitute can you share with the audience about how you did that you just because of where you were you were able to meet someone where they were and love them to Jesus?
Christine McDonald Yeah so um, samples of things that I give in same kind of human when I come into churches are go to organizations and facilitate trainings with real life practical application is I too, I walk my walk, I don’t just teach people how to do this and love like Jesus and break our own biases and help us on thread those so that they keep us from seeing these vulnerable people. But I live that out in my everyday life, man. One day, there was this gal and I heard her cry in from my apartment, and I’m like, open my door. Now. Like I said, I’m totally blind. But guys, when I hear somebody sobbing, and I go outside of my colo, is there somebody out there? And I still hear a cry. And so I just start walking towards the sound. I got my little cane. And I’m like, Can I sit here and she’s like, you don’t want to sit here. I’m a prostitute. And I’m like, I think it’ll be okay darlin. And so I sit there and I’m like, What’s your name? And she says, doesn’t matter. You don’t have to tell me right? Um, and I said, are you hungry? And I ran up and I grabbed some stuff out of my fridge and put some stuff together for to keep coke go bags handy because I can teach people and equip people to serve these people. But I’ve got to practice what I preach, if you will. So I live that out too, in my day to day, so I give her this food and I sit back down and at a car comes and she’s like, I don’t want to go and I’m like, It’s okay. And she’s like, she’s like, so why are you here? And I said, well, there was a time If I worked this corner that I was paid for, that I was beaten up on this corner and cars passed me, I was hungry and I was cold. For years I’ve been arrested on this corner, I’ve been through some stuff on these corners. And nobody saw me. And nobody intervened. I was invisible my pain, all my longing for that rescuer. And I made a commitment to my heart to make sure that people can feel seen. And so that’s why I teach people how to people. By my commitment, God pierced my heart and equip me to help people see those people in their own communities. And then how do you connect with people that their trust has been violated in so many ways? And how do you reach those people that are a little more challenging?
Kimberly Hobbs Oh, my goodness, exactly. And that, that same girl, you were able to develop a relationship because you invested time, Christine, you took time to know who she was, as God sees her? And not just try to push your agenda on her? Right? Yes. And that’s what we have to learn, ladies says that. There, everybody’s busy and you God provides moments in time for us to reach people where they are. And this is the beauty of Christine’s life. That this is what she does now is she has the ability to teach people to love people where they are, and not just judge them or shun them for what they’re doing.
Christine McDonald Right?
Kimberly Hobbs Exactly. Because they don’t even know right? Oh my gosh, oh my gosh. So we all have so much busyness going on in our lives. So we need to look around at people and be still long enough to see them as God sees them and be wise to their surroundings and their life. You know, like you, you told me when you were a prostitute, you know, and, and you got into this truck and, and some guy was trying to push a tract on you and tell you about Jesus. But you’re like, wait a minute, wait a minute, unless you give me money, I’m gonna be in big trouble. I gotta get out of here. And instead of being sensitive, he drove off pushing his agenda on you not hearing
Christine McDonald And I got beat you with broken bones, right?
Kimberly Hobbs You got beat up for it when you got out of that truck without money to give to your pimp. And that man cause a lot of pain in your life. Of course, you were turned off to Jesus at that point, like how could this guy be so insensitive, right. But this is what this whole podcast is about ladies and why Christine is investing her time to be here today is to share. We have to take moments to look at the life that we are talking to about Jesus. God is not a God of disorder, but of peace. As an all the meetings of God’s holy people. So ladies, right, we have to bring our life into order and look in the moment that God has put us in at the heart that he has put in front of us to share Jesus with. So So Christine, how do you teach people to be honorable to other people?
Christine McDonald Well, I think we have to examine our own motives. Sometimes we do it for our own hearts to feel good. Okay, that of the person that we’re serving. And we feel like well, if I bring them to Jesus, that’s a win for me. Well, you can’t bring somebody I mean, we can even go on to to the psychology behind this, the people that have been impacted by trauma people that have this whole messy mess. Number one, we can’t decide when they feel safe. And we can start building that trust relationship. So consistency and being okay, being a safe plan or what you might not see the reward. Look, we are supposed to surrender and submit. And that means that we become selfless. And that means that we’re not doing this for our own rewards. And I see it happen a lot. Wait. So ask yourself, why are you doing this? This isn’t because it makes you feel bad because you did something good for somebody? Are you really doing it to draw people into God’s kingdom, right? It has to be that motivation. And that may mean you’re just that seed cleaner to change the way if that guy would have just said, Hey, here’s here’s a track and I stuck it in my back pocket. He kept on going. Who knows? I might have read it one day. Amen. Right? He wanted to like, I want you to be saved, and I need you to do this. And that was all about his own agenda, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so when we can, we have these moments of time and you gotta be okay, like I use this analogy, like, a blind girl is going to try to get sighted people on analogy. Litter. If you have one little piece of glitter in the floor, you’re not going to see it. But if there’s several little pieces of glitter and the light shines on that shiny thing on the universe, oh, it’s just a little pile of glitter. You can be okay. So think of your state planning as like are building that little bit of hope. Right? And, and build on that instead of looking for your own Marisa and and I’ve learned, you know I’ve been I’ve been I’ve been speaking and doing these kinds of things since about 2007 teaching people how to do effective outreach today to find new churches and communities, what’s going to be the best population that you guys are really led to be in, and it’s practical in your community, that’s a need. But I’ve been you know, when we do this, I’ve been doing this for a really long time. But I think so often what I see is you have to examine your own heart and your own motive. I have seen people start up programs, and they’ll ask me to come in and consult with them and how to strengthen how to do better because people aren’t saying, I don’t like you’re making them sign a statement of faith in order to have a place to eat and sleep for the next 30 days. Oh,
Kimberly Hobbs my gosh, right.
Christine McDonald a Bible study for six hours a day. And they don’t even know who this is, you’re asking to sign a statement of fact about for you to give him a place.
Kimberly Hobbs Christine, Christine, I have to read this verse again, that I read as we started off, because it’s so appropriate here. God makes everything beautiful for its own time, he has planted eternity in the in the human heart. But even so people cannot see the whole scope of God’s word from beginning to end. So again, we
Christine McDonald So again we love them like Jesus by giving him that bed. And those meals, and inviting them to church have been learn about God, big enough to be God and their heart on their own. You don’t need say, in order for us to help you for the next six months, you sign the statement of faith, right, except Jesus in your heart and will take care of your ex. facilitate a safe space and being good people will take care of their humanity. Create the space for God to God.
Kimberly Hobbs Hey, man, let God be God. Right. God may be using you ladies to do his work. So he’s put this life or person in front of you and their their life might be different than Christine’s we don’t know what their life is. But let God do the work. And you just love them. And you just spent the time and put them and serve be a servant. And have a servant’s heart. And that takes time. It doesn’t just happen quickly, right? People? You’re exactly right. Yeah. So we have to wrap it up, Christine. And I just want to share with the ladies though that there is unbelievable, Christine. She teaches she’s a she teaches at churches, she speaks all over and you can reach Christine and Christine dot cry firstname.lastname@example.org. She has her books available the same kind of human. She also has cried purple. She loves to speak at churches and events. She also has a movie out. And you tell them about the movie. Christine, like this is so exciting.
Christine McDonald I have a docu drama. So I called it a documentary. And I was corrected as Tokyo drama. And so it’s all about trafficking and the intersection between pornography, and how that fuels sexual exploitation. It has snapshots of my story and some of my work and ministry. So but it really gives us a call to action. So it’s in a festival run won a bunch of awards. It’s so exciting. It’ll be available this spring. But if you go to Christie speaks ministry, or if you find me on YouTube, or our Facebook, you know, you can kind of follow that journey and what is inspired from this whole thing, which I’m excited to start showing in churches and having conversations in communities is it’s it’s we’ve been, you know, we’re in conversations now about like, a full episodic series that really like walks through the different chapters of my life. Wow, wow. It’s just crazy.
Kimberly Hobbs So it is not out yet. It’ll be out in the spring. It will. Okay, so fantastic. So ladies, please look for that. And look Christina up on her website. So you have that so when the movie does come out, you can watch it but you know, I heard Christine speak at the faith and Film Festival in Orlando, Florida. She spoke there and shared and it she was just such you can hear her heart just pour out to people and I just again, if you have any wants or inclination to bring Christine to your church or to call on her, please please go to her website again. She’s also available on YouTube at Christine speaks ministry. Her website is Christine’s beaks ministry.com or.org There’s so many places you could find her and also, Christine C. McDonald on Facebook. I just want them to find you, Christine because what you’re doing for God’s Kingdom you are busy, busy, busy at work, and you could have taken all the adversity thrown your way and had a pity party the rest of your life because my gosh, or life, but God right, but God, and so you are an inspiration, my sister, I am so grateful that you came on. And I know that you would just reach out to anybody who tried to reach out to you. So thank you, thank you for being a guest today. We love you and appreciate you, Christine, and what you’re doing for God’s kingdom. You’re beautiful. And, ladies, we are so grateful that you tuned in today. And this is what we do at women, world leaders. We empower women with purpose to walk in their beautiful plan that God has just for them. Remember, ladies, you’re a masterpiece you’re created anew in Christ Jesus, to do the things that he planned for you Long, long ago. So think about that. Pray with Jesus, and take those opportunities of that precious life that he puts in your path, to share His love with others and get to know them where they are. So as we close out our podcast today, remember that we have tools for you at women, we’re leaders, we have books. We have podcasts available every Monday, Wednesday and Friday teaching podcasts we have encouraging podcasts, and we just want you to be part of all of it. So from his heart to yours, we are women world leaders. All content is copyrighted and cannot be used without expressed written consent. God bless you all and have a beautiful day.